DESTINATION
#NEVERHERE™

About the Podcast

DESTINATION #NEVERHERE™ is a conversation about preventing targeted violence, hosted by Chris Grollnek, Former U.S. Marine and retired police detective corporal and creator of the P.R.O. Model™ (Prevention. Response. Options.), an “A” national standard selected twice by the U.S. Department of Justice and in use at some installations and commands across the Department of Defense.

These are long conversations with people who were actually there. Survivors. Federal investigators. School leaders. The people building prevention infrastructure before anything happens. No fear, no theatre, and no easy answers where the evidence does not support one.

Listen to every episode on the DESTINATION #NEVERHERE™ playlist.

Who You Will Hear From

Patrice Whitten is a school principal who was held hostage during an active shooter incident in Mesquite, Texas. She describes what those minutes were actually like, and what she wishes had been in place beforehand.

Hannah Carbocci survived the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida on February 14, 2018. She was in Room 1214. She is now pursuing a master’s degree focused on violence prevention.

Olivia Hussain speaks for the lockdown generation, the students who have never known a school day without drills, alongside Imron Hussain and Fawzia A. Atcha, Ph.D.

Peter J. Forcelli is a retired ATF Deputy Assistant Director and former NYPD homicide detective. As Special Agent in Charge of the ATF Miami Field Division he oversaw the federal response to several mass shootings. He is the author of The Deadly Path.

Dr. Gregory M. Vecchi is the former Chief of the FBI Behavioral Science Unit, where the work is understanding why an attacker does what they do before they do it.

Brig Barker is a former FBI Special Agent, an Arabic speaker, and the author of The Dark Trajectory of Jihad.

Glenn Norling is a retired FBI Special Agent and owner of TBR Consulting LLC, with deep experience in emergency management.

Gabrielle Diecidue leads the National Violence Prevention Hotline, with Paul Krauss, MA, LPC, its creator and Board President. If you or someone you know is struggling with violent thoughts, call (888) 664-6652. Free and confidential.

Shaina Biller of Amazon K-12 Education discusses what school safety looks like at scale.

Why This Podcast Exists

Most conversations about active shooter incidents happen after one. This one happens before. Every guest here has either survived an attack, investigated attacks for the federal government, or spends their working life trying to stop the next one.

The destination is #NEVERHERE™. Executive Producer: Ruben Roel.